Courtney’s baby shower was this weekend! Thanks to everyone who made it a special day for Courtney!
We took a few minutes today to take “Courtney Pregnant” pictures. Also here you can see the new nursery (a building the nursery post is coming later with start to complete pictures). The hand-made crib and custom nursery is my gift to the baby and Courtney.
The following is the communication log for my search for a solution – I will update this post over time with new contacts.
Let me say first that EVERYONE listed here has been helpful. They’ve all listened to the problem, reviewed the photos and videos and recognized there is an issue that needs to be resolved.
While we don’t yet have the person/money identified to be responsible for implementing a solution, I am hopeful based on the communication to date, that my goal of getting a solution in place before my first child, my baby girl, gets here Nov 25, 2009 is possible!
COMMUNICATION LOG: (alphabetical listing)
Description/Titles of people mentioned and their contact info is listed first. A time line and narrative is included below the list.
CONTACT LIST:
Billy McKinney (Wilson County Road Commission) – 444-9022
Clint Thomas (Wilson County Commissioner, District 13) http://www.wilsoncountytn.com/commission.htm
Frankie (Civil Engineer – Expert at site work, building subdivisions. Friend of coworker in another state)
John Dewaal, PE (Civil Engineer, Dewaal & Associates) – dewaal@bellsouth.net – 615-394-3347
Kathy (Next Door Neighbor)
Kenneth House (Wilson County Storm Water Division) – muddywater@softek.net – 615-444-9022
Kevin Mosley (Builder) – kmosleymrdad@tds.net – 615-394-6810
Mark Brown (Former Employer, Developer, Homebuilder)
Matt (Next Door Neighbor)
Nathan Whittle (Attorney)
Rick Grinstead (Accu-rite Home Inspections, Inc.) 615-772-3104 http://www.accu-ritehomeinspections.com/index.htm
Rob Porter, PE (Subdivision Engineering Firm – Civil Site Design Group) – http://www.civil-site.com/
Robert Dedman (Wilson County Mayor) http://www.wilsoncountytn.com/wilson_countyMayor.htm
Ron Clendening (Geologist, State of Tennessee) – http://www.state.tn.us/environment/tdg/staff.shtml
Ron Zurawski (Director, TN Division of Geology) http://www.state.tn.us/environment/tdg/staff.shtml
Ryan Lovelace, PE (Subdivision Engineering Firm – Civil Site Design Group) http://www.civil-site.com/
Sonja Robinson (Wilson County Storm Water Division) – 615-444-9022
Steve Armistead (Wilson County Road Commission) – 444-9022
Thomas Brashear (Wilson County Planning Office, Planning Director) – tombrashear@charter.net – 615-449-2836
NARRATIVE:
Saturday Sept 26, 2009
4:30am: FLOODED
4:30am – ~1:00pm – Ran +14,000 GPH pump to remove water from property.
Kevin Mosley – Informed him about the re-occurrence of the major flooding and that a real solution must be found. He suggested we contact Steve Armistead (because he knows him personally) to seek advice on how to proceed.
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Monday Sept 28, 2009
I did not wait for Kevin to make the calls to start looking for a solution. At this point he didn’t yet show the level of urgency or seriousness that I wanted to see in him. Kevin has stepped up now and is hustling to help solve this – kudos!
Steve Armistead – Called and left a message briefly describing the situation and requesting a call for advice on who to talk to.
I stayed up until 2am working on a email that described the situation and included pictures and links to videos posted online.
(Click to see .pdf of First Email – 277 Quad Oak Flooding)
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Tuesday Sept 29, 2009
Ken House, Kevin Mosley, Rob Porter, PE – Emailed pictures/videos/details requesting review of situation and support with how to proceed to a solution.
HOA distribution list – Emailed information to our HOA seeking advice. (I heard back from a half dozen helpful residents of the neighborhood. I didn’t hear from any HOA officers – however Kevin Mosley my builder is on the HOA board.)
Ken House – Called to follow up email. Spoke briefly with Mr. House. He informed me that he was covered at the moment but committed to reviewing the information and getting back with by next Monday Oct 5th. (Since this time, Kevin Mosley has also spoken to Ken and we are scheduled to meet together on site next week)
Rob Porter, PE –Called to follow up email. Left message with Mr. Porter requesting he review the email and call me back.
Sonja Robinson (Steve Armistead) – Called Steve Armistead’s office again; spoke with Sonja who provided me with an email to send pictures/videos/details to Steve Armistead.
Mark/Ginger Brown – Called and left message with former employer from my youth who is a builder and land developer to seek advice and ask if I was following the right trail.
Nathan Whittle – Called and spoke with a friend I grew up with who is now an Attorney in Wilson County. (I am not planning to, and will not unless absolutely required to, involve Attorney’s. However, I wanted to briefly speak with a friend and insure I was collecting the right information along the way; just in case.)
John Dewaal, PE – Called a licensed Civil Engineer and discussed the situation with him. I made arrangements with him to get a quote for an independent review of the situation. He told me to go the County Planning Office and get a publicly available copy of the “Grading and Drainage Plan” for my subdivision; he would need this to review.
(Click to see .pdf of Email – To John Dewaal PE – Civil Engineer)
Kevin Mosley – I called Kevin and told him what I’d learned so far and that we needed to start writing everything down and making some hard decisions. I tossed an idea out there (which has since become my primary preference) of having him (or someone) buy the house back from me for the original cost (plus all immovable upgrades) and use any difference in price from full market to make necessary repairs to get property to 100% again, then they could resell.
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Wednesday Sept 30, 2009
I took the day off work because I was so distracted and wanted to meet people face-to-face, share my situation, and get additional information on how to proceed. Prior to making the rounds, I took some pictures of the area and then printed those with some flood pictures for talking points. I also printed business cards with links to the online videos and with contact information on them to share.
Thomas Brashear – I visited Mr. Brashear at his office in the basement of the Wilson County courthouse. I went to locate and get copies of the “Grading and Drainage Plan”. He let me know he didn’t have them at his office, but that I could get them at the Road Commission office. He empathized about the situation and told me of some other stories he knew. He told me that many areas required developers to post “Errors and Omissions” bonds to cover the occasional issues like this – but that Wilson County didn’t require them…yet. They are taking steps to make the developing/building process better. He was very helpful.
Sonja Robinson – I visited Sonja at the Road Commission office. She has been helpful and interested in the story. She had reviewed the email with videos/pictures/details that I sent but there was no one in the office when I got there who could help me find the Grading and Drainage Plans that I was looking for. I was determined to get something and Sonja was nice enough to allow me to share my story and frustrations with her at length. Then Mr. Billy McKinney pulled up outside.
Billy McKinney – Mr. McKinney is with the road commission. Sonja asked him to stop in her office and hear my story. He listened as I shared and ultimately he helped me find the grading and drainage plans.
John Dewaal, PE – I called Mr. Dewaal after I got the plans and asked him where in Lebanon I could get plans copied. (He directed me to “Lester Digital Reprographics” next door to the Dunkin Donuts of Highway 70. The owner is great and I found he can print some of my photography in large format for me too!) It was later in the afternoon at this point and John graciously met with me and helped me read the Grading and Drainage Plans. He said he was amazed at what he saw. He explained the topo lines on the plan and showed me that my home (and my neighbors) were built on a “sink hole” and that they never should have been built there without a proper study of the geography and appropriate drainage provisions. I am planning to hire John to review the situation and provide his professional opinion for the record. He said a solution was very likely possible.
Matt – I visited with my neighbor to show him the plans, tell him about the sink hole so he would be aware of the upcoming actions and could be a part.
Kevin Mosley – I met with Kevin at his home that night to review the Grading and Drainage Plans. He reiterated his commitment to work on this until it was right.
That evening, I went home and researched “sink holes.” I found some really scary information! I also found a paper written by the Tennessee State Geology Office that described the different geographic formations related to sink holes. I wrote an email and contacted the TN State Geology Director to ask for help.
(Click to see .pdf of email – To TN State Geologist)
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Thursday Oct 01, 2009
Rob Porter, PE – Left message with Mr. Porter requesting he review the email and call me back.
Ron Zurawski – I called Mr. Zurawski, the director of the TN Division of Geology. He quickly reviewed my email and passed me to his expert in sink holes and soil science; Ron Clendening.
Ron Clendening – I was transferred to and spoke with Ron, a Geologist for the state of TN. He provided excellent information. He shared from his more than 20yrs experience that the likelihood was that the “sink hole” is simply a geographic feature called a “doline” or closed depression. A doline is a normal, safe geographic feature; it is a low spot that collects water in a heavy rain. It’s not a feature of concern as far as real estate is concerned, not something that has to be disclosed as an issue. He did say that it was an obvious oversight in design. That this feature should have been reviewed and proper grading and drainage provided. He was as amazed as the Civil engineer that this wasn’t caught by someone. He was very caring a concerned for my pregnant wife’s concerns – he urged me to call and tell her that the TN State Geologist doesn’t think it’s a “sink hole” but more properly a doline (or closed depression) which typically doesn’t result in any collapse features. Ron suggested I contact my county commissioner and county mayor to share the story and seek their support.
Robert Dedman & Clint Thomas – I created an email and sent all the latest information to Mr. Dedman (County Mayor) and Mr. Thomas (my commissioner, district 13).
(Click to see .pdf of email – To Wilson County Mayor and Commissioner)
Clint Thomas – I called Mr. Thomas and explained the situation to him. He was interested and reviewed the email with me on the phone. He asked that I create this communication log and send to him so he could know who I’d already contacted. He said he’d review the list and then follow up with his own calls to support.
Robert Dedman – Mr. Dedman called me! Yes, the Mayor of Wilson County called me within 15minutes of receiving my email. He said he’d reviewed my information, agreed with me that there was a problem, and told me Ken House (Storm Water) was his guy to help. I was pleasantly surprised and greatly appreciate that Mr. Dedman and his office cared enough to respond so quickly and get behind the push to get a solution.
Rob Porter, PE – Called Mr. Porter again. Spoke with Mary at Civil Site. I asked if there was anyone above Mr. Porter I could speak with. She said he was the top guy, but that he was a busy fellow and hard to catch at the office. She was helpful though and suggested I leave a message with Ryan Lovelace.
Ryan Lovelace, PE – Left a message with Ryan describing the situation. I gave him the plan numbers and asked him to review and give me a call back.
Ryan Lovelace, PE – Called me back and, while he couldn’t locate the drawings (they are older, from 2005) on his system while I was on the phone, I was able to direct him to my blog where I’m posting information to facilitate discussions (http://robertthompson.wordpress.com/) . He looked at the videos and pictures and the topo lines of the Grading and Drainage plan and told me he’d locate the plans and give me a call back. I got the impression that he cared about the situation and would take action so I felt good about the conversation.
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Friday Oct 02, 2009
Kathy – I left a message with my other neighbor inviting her to see the plans, tell her about the “closed depression” so she would be aware of the upcoming actions and could be a part.
Kevin Mosley – Called me to say he’d gotten in touch with Ken House and said he was available to meet with us next Tuesday or Thursday on site at my home.
Ryan Lovelace, PE – Left a message with Ryan asking him if he’d found the plans, invited him to the meeting next week, and asked him to call me back.
Ryan Lovelace, PE – Called Ryan and asked about the status. He said that he and Rob Porter were planning to review the situation on Monday morning. I asked about attending the meeting with Ken House, he said their Mon/Tues were really full, so I suggested Thursday. He said to give him a call back on Monday and he’d know more and whether they are going to attend.
Rick Grinstead – Called Rick and am arranging to have him do a home inspection to document mold and any other issues.
Frankie - After a few emails sharing information and requesting review and help, I got this from Frankie.
“Whoever did the design on the subdivision screwed up. You are definitely in a huge depression which is shown by the contour lines on the plan sheet. I could easily figure out the fix if I could see a copy of the site plan which shows the existing storm drain system. The plan sheet in which you have shown, I am not sure if this was a site plan for the layout prior to construction or after construction—No way in a million years could they be allowed to design this home in a depression like this, there would have been a huge drain line placed into the center of this area to allow drainage and it would had to be able to handle a 100 year storm.”
Kevin Mosley – I called Kevin and told him to set up our meeting with Ken House for next Thursday Oct 8. I told him I’d got in touch with Ryan Lovelace at Civil Site and he was going to talk with Rob Porter (the main guy at Civil Site) about attending.
Friday Oct 2nd: THANK YOU! To the professionals and experts who have shared their knowledge and experience with me this week! And a special thanks to all the office managers and administrators who were key to getting me in touch with the right people!
I feel like we are on the right track to getting this worked out before my baby girl gets here Nov 25th!
For anyone interested, I’ll post the steps I take to solve this problem. Maybe it will help someone, or better yet, keep someone from ever being in this situation.
VIDEOS:
May 2009 :
Sept 2009:
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I am sending this note to three parties and will follow up with phone calls and/or visits to each:
- Wilson County Storm Water Division: Mr. Kenneth House
- Civil Site Design Group: Mr. Rob Porter, PE
- K&K Construction: Mr. Kevin Mosley
I’m writing to request your review of a situation and determination of next steps. This is my first time dealing with something like this. I don’t know exactly who to contact or what the steps are. I will follow up with phone calls and/or visits and wanted to send some pictures and videos ahead (see links below).
As you will see, I’ve tried everything possible within the bounds of my own property to manage this runoff flooding issue. I’ve been patient and don’t expect this to be resolved immediately, however I do want to understand quickly if there are any county, developer or engineering solutions available, what information I need to collect and who I need to contact. (For what it’s worth, I am an engineer/MBA. I’m a fellow ‘fixer’ who is stumped by a problem I cannot solve for my family. I need the help of professionals who can make this right.)
Details are below.
Thank you all!
-Robert
615-290-6965
Summary of the Issue:
I purchased this home new in July 2008. It has become apparent that my lot is the low point, a basin, with zero drainage. Multiple times this year, my entire back yard (and crawlspace) has flooded to a depth of 8-12 inches. The water from the 2-3 lots on my left and right drain uninterrupted directly into my yard with no way of passing on to a drainage system (several acres behind my home also slope toward my yard but no obvious runoff is coming from the wooded lot). Any action, more than what I’ve already done, to stop the flow of water into my yard would result in major flooding of my neighbor’s yards and garages.
I’m searching for a solution that will restore value to three homes and families. Currently, required disclosure of this flooding would result in inability to sell and/or large reduction in sale price of our homes. Not to mention the health hazards to my family (I have a new baby girl due in 8 weeks) with mold now started under my house because of constant flooding and also the septic tank being repeatedly covered with water.
Major observed events and drainage management actions taken during our one year residence:
1) Major Event 1: May 26, 2008 – See pictures. This is before the home was finished. We almost cancelled the contract, but the builder told us the situation would be resolved; he brought in many loads of top dirt and graded the lot.
2) Major Event 2: Jan 31, 2009 – No pictures. After seeing water reaching home and getting into below-grade crawlspace, the builder purchased and helped install a sump pump in the back right corner of my lot. Looking back, our lack of understanding of the massive volume and speed of the flooding is comical – but we were hopeful we could solve the problem.
3) Feb/Mar – Discovered that gutters were overflowing at foundation because builder had connected them to black drainage pipe underground along foundation running to back yard. When the back yard flooded, water back flowed against the house and gutters overflowed against the house. I worked with the builder to disconnect and re-route gutters and underground pipe to stop water from back flowing to crawlspace.
4) Major Event 2: May 9, 2009 – See pictures. With 8-10 inches of water standing against house (and in crawlspace) the builder and I worked all day one Saturday to pump water off lot and from under home. After this event, the builder agreed to pay for additional dirt work. He installed earth berms around the perimeter of the lot while digging a massive holding ditch (80ft x 10ft x avg 3.5 ft) at the back of the lot. I lost a lot of my backyard as a result, but was being cooperative and hopeful that we could solve the issue within the property bounds. We also installed a 2nd sump pump in the crawlspace.
5) June 13, 2009 – After realizing berms were trapping water in yard, I installed two one-way drainage valves on each corner through the earth berms. The valves allow water to drain from the backyard until the drainage ditch fills up, then they keep the water from backflowing into the yard.
6) Major Event 2: Sept 16/17, 2009 – No pictures. With water standing in my yard after a rain and seeing the water outside the earth berm was very close to coming over, I purchased a 3rd sump pump and installed inside the yard to pump water over the earthen berm. I also spent over $800 to purchase a gas powered pump (able to move 14,000 Gallons per hour) so I could at least take some action to protect my property and home in the event the water ever came over the earthen berm.
7) Major Event 2: Sept 26, 2009 – See pictures. 10 days later it happened. 4am Saturday my 7months pregnant wife wakes me up to show me how our system was holding up. It appeared to be working, then all of a sudden, the water started coming over the tops of the earthen berms. In less than 5 minutes, our yard and crawlspace was covered with 8-12 inches of water. I worked from 4:30am-1pm pumping over 100,000 gallons of water onto the street in front of my house.
I am exhausted. I need professional help to solve this problem and restore the value of my home and property.
Property, Owner & Address:
Parcel ID: 100H A 01800 00024100H
Owner: THOMPSON ROBERT A III ETUX
Owner2: COURTNEY A
Address: QUADOAK DR 277
Additional Property Details
County Zoning: R-1
Commission District: 13
Census Block groups: 0309021
Census Block#: 0309021003
Traffic Analysis Zone: 3070100
DFirm Flood Panel: 47189C0165D
DFirm Flood Date: 2/20/2008 12:00:00 AM
PHOTO/VIDEO:
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.h.thompson/Lot60277QuadOakFlooding?feat=directlink
Videos:
Sept 26, 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSaqO1UgaDs
May 9, 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGVg0h5jVYI
PARTIES INVOLVED:
Wilson County Storm Water Division: (w) 615-444-9022 (c) 615-483-9070
http://www.wilsoncountytn.com/stormwater.html
Kenneth House – muddywater@softek.net
Subdivision Engineering Firm: 615-248-9999
Civil Site Design Group – http://www.civil-site.com/
Rob Porter, PE: robp@civil-site.com
Kevin Gangaware, PE: keving@civil-site.com
Jim Harrison, PE: jimh@civil-site.com
Ryan Lovelace, PE: ryanl@civil-site.com
Builder: 615-394-6810
Kevin Mosley: kmosleymrdad@tds.net
Developer: 615-758-0301
Alfred and Pam Hodges
348 Oak Point Ter, Mount Juliet, TN 37122
Homeowners: 615-290-6965
Robert and Courtney Thompson
277 Quad Oak Drive, Mt Juliet, TN, 37122
For several weeks now I’ve been building a crib for our new baby girl (due Nov 25). This weekend I finished it!
( Update: Thanks to everyone for the nice emails and comments! For those who asked or wondered – yes – I built this from scratch – individual pieces of wood cut, assembled and painted. I should have taken a few more “in process” pictures. )
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Courtney (carefully) helping paint the stripes!
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On Saturday me and a guy from work paddled and fished about 6 miles of the West Fork of the Stones River. We put in just off Thompson Lane in Murfreesboro and finished at Nices Mill near Smyrna.
It was a solid day of fishing. Ken caught nearly 30 fish; a mix of bluegill, redeye and bass. I snagged 2 goodsized bass and a handful of small ones. This is the big one (can’t decide if it’s a large mouth or small mouth – jaw doesn’t go beyond the eye, but the coloring is more like a large mouth)
Here is the path we took and the river gauge at the time. We scraped the bottom A LOT, but nothing one of us hopping out of the boat didn’t solve (except a few spots.) There were also a lot of opportunities to get out of the boat and walk down the creek at knee/thigh deep.
GIRL!
She appears healthy and is on track for a Thanksgiving arrival!
After it rained all night on the 4th, but we did make it out tonight (5th) for a little sparkler fun.
On Friday night, Courtney had a chance to get together with some of her very good old friends. It was great to see everyone.
Over the years we’ve tried various combinations of flowers in containers. This year we stumbled on a combo for our window boxes that put on an amazing morning display.
Dwarf Red Geraniums and Yellow Moss Roses
